Nicholes Family Lawyers was founded in 2004, and Ms Nicholes said it was based on giving back and corporate social responsibility. The firm now has 30 staff and 10 lawyers.

“The beauty of it is you can actually set your own values and projections. And giving back to the community and looking at the different social justice issues that just naturally emerged from family law meant that we could actually even work pro bono into the partnership deed,” she said.

“When I initially founded the firm, I was already looking at different social issues, and I was a board member of the World Congress for Children’s Rights and Family Law and Children’s Rights International.

“And of course, looking at youth and families, rainbow families were one of the critical areas in terms of promoting the rights of those most vulnerable. Those who have been disenfranchised, and really went back to the value set of why did we become a lawyer? Why are we setting this firm up? And it was actually to give back.”

Ms Nicholes has been practising for de facto couples before gay marriage was legal in Australia – and said that whilst things have come a long way, there’s still a lot of advocating in this space to be done, which is why her firm has such a specialised practice group.

As a business, she said knowing their clients and customers had come into play a lot when establishing the practice group.

“I think family law marketing is largely word of mouth. So that’s really important too, in terms of the business case. And being authentic. If we were secretly homophobic, I don’t think we’d last very long,” she added.

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“Certain people we hire, we really grill them in a great positive way in terms of their value sets, why they want to come work with us, and what they find attractive about having a special interest group, say, for child protection, for LGBTQIA+ community. And generally, people are really excited about it. It’s really stimulating and interesting.”

However, there are a number of challenges in this space, particularly for LGBTQIA+ families and how the law actually “plays out” for them, according to Ms Dahl.

“One of the things I see is really important is, it’s great to have the law, and it’s great to have the black and white words written down, and saying that we’re all equal in these certain areas. But I think that as a lawyer practising in the area, you also have to be aware of how that plays out in reality,” she said.

“And some of the nuances for individuals going through that law, where things are moving, and we’ve had some great changes in law in the recent memory around parentage for lesbian couples, and surrogacy, and IVF and all those sorts of things. But I think that what I really find is important is that we have to understand that there are individual issues that LGBTQIA+ people face.

“I think as a legal community, I think we have a real responsibility to understand that there are some things that the LGBTQIA+ community face that others outside that community just don’t. People outing their partners, people withholding medication from their trans partners. And I think that we have a responsibility as lawyers who work in this space to really look at that next level that comes underneath what the legislation might say,” Ms Dahl added.

In addition to LGBTQIA+ adolescents being at an increased risk during the pandemic without the support of their peers, elder abuse had also been an issue during COVID-19, according to Ms Nicholes.

“One of the stories that really broke my heart was trans people going into nursing homes and actually going back into the closet, which was just heart-rendering because those were the peers that treated them really badly back in the day. There were stories where medication was withheld by children of elderly residents, which was just heartbreaking for trans people in that way,” she said.

“When we come to look at a family law breakdown, you really need to know and understand those nuances because you want to support people the most authentic way that you can.”

For these reasons, this type of practice is vitally important, added Ms Dahl.

“It’s vitally important. I mean, my view is that if I wasn’t doing this work, and I wasn’t leading ... helping Sally with this practice group, I wouldn’t be doing my job as a family lawyer properly,” she said.

“If someone has a certain vulnerability, and that might be mental health, it might be feeling disempowered financially, or they just had years and years and years and years of abuse, we can’t be their social scientists, but we can empathise, and we can work in a multidisciplinary way,” Ms Nicholes agreed.

“One of the ways we also keep mentally healthy is that we actually approach psychologists, and get advice and have regular updates about how we can best serve our clients and do the right thing. But it is, it’s a really tricky area, and if you’re not quite healthy, you need to probably take a break from it because it is quite draining.”

While this sort of work can be more emotionally draining than other areas of law, both say the rewards cancel out any feelings of being overwhelmed.

“I think there really is an element of cancelling that out per se because of what we can see changing and growing. And I really get a kick out of helping people that I know won’t be getting that support elsewhere because they tell me,” Ms Dahl said.

“You feel quite humbled and privileged to be actually helping the community, honestly,” Ms Nicholes added.

“We are the ones who feel humbled, and we feel privileged that if we can actually help people who are vulnerable in that journey, and it really does go back to the core of why did you choose to become a lawyer? And when you get to a stage of certain expertise, you just give back.”

The transcript of this podcast episode was slightly edited for publishing purposes. To listen to the full conversation with Sally Nicholes and Bec Dahl, click below: